Thoughts on Wildfire Druid - Druid - Class Forums - D&D Beyond Forums (2024)

Quote from Werlynn >>

The point of the druid bonus spell is that it's always available, not that it's added to the potential spell list. Plant growth is what happensaftera wildfire, not reviving recentlydead people.

And the point of the subclass is more of the idea of wildfires than actually creating them. There's no mechanic in the subclass that requires you to burn down forests, so why should one of the spells require you to grow one? The theme of the subclass is more of the ideology that life and growth comes after things die to fire, which is why I personally think it would make more sense to have the 3rd level spells be fireball and revivify, not the current plant growth and revivify.

They already have access to both plant growth and revivify, so I think the more standard "druidy" of the two should be pushed back into the main class's spell list (so they can still take it, but don't have to), while the more general "life and fire" concept of the subclass is fulfilled by my proposed change.

(TBH, it's not just me that's proposing it. A lot of people share the same opinion as me on this matter.)

Quote from Mephista>>

I personally think that the loss of Fireball isn't too big of a deal, but only because Staff of Fire is a thing.

So, the theme of the subclass now depends on the DM giving the druid a very rare magic item?

I suspect that Fireball got replaced because the druid ended up as a pyromaniac instead of Phoenix style. Having to be more strategic with your fireballs makes thematic sense.

. . .But they don't get fireballs anymore. Also, since they have revivify, if they accidentally kill someone, they can just bring them back to life.

*shrugs* Relies? No. The main tactic of the subclass is fire pet, not fireball. Relying on the latter does shift the intended playstyle into another blaster type, which is not the intent.

But asking hurts no one, and I see this as a way to have your cake and eat it too. DMs usually listen, or allow some kind of downtime crafting or auction or something too.

One good blast spell doesn't turn a subclass into a blaster. Scorching Ray doesn't need to be on their list. It's mostly redundant with flaming sphere and is less on theme than fireball. Scorching ray is targeted fire that can't set things on fire. Fireball is a fire blast that blankets an area and ignites unattended objects on fire. Fireball is one of the best spells to mechanically represent the beginning of a wildfire.

Someone last page said that raising dead people isn't what happens after a wildfire, plant growth is. Sorry I'm too tired to quote, but they nailed it.

Fireball is the wildfire. Plant Growth is the aftermath.

Revivify is the thing they threw in because they wanted to force the healing aspect and were timid about giving druids fireball. I don't like the wildfire druid's stake as a traditional healer. Plant Growth and some class ability that promotes vegetation at 10th level would have been more than enough to nail the flavor without forcing this overly literal view of healers.

Okay, it's been awhile since I've said anything on this post, but thisis what I've gathered from what people been talking about/wanting from this subclass (from this post and other sources) in regards to the spell list.

Quote from HeironymusZot >>

One good blast spell doesn't turn a subclass into a blaster. Scorching Ray doesn't need to be on their list. It's mostly redundant with flaming sphere and is less on theme than fireball. Scorching ray is targeted fire that can't set things on fire. Fireball is a fire blast that blankets an area and ignites unattended objects on fire. Fireball is one of the best spells to mechanically represent the beginning of a wildfire.

Someone last page said that raising dead people isn't what happens after a wildfire, plant growth is. Sorry I'm too tired to quote, but they nailed it.

Fireball is the wildfire. Plant Growth is the aftermath.

Revivify is the thing they threw in because they wanted to force the healing aspect and were timid about giving druids fireball. I don't like the wildfire druid's stake as a traditional healer. Plant Growth and some class ability that promotes vegetation at 10th level would have been more than enough to nail the flavor without forcing this overly literal view of healers.

I'm in agreement with all of this for pretty much the same reasoning.

Another little bit of hate towards Scorching Ray: Not only is it redundant with flaming sphere, but sphere is also more on theme because it can set things on fire.

There are plenty of times when a subclass doesn't get there for me that I don't care about. But the wildfire druid stings. I was really looking forward to this one and I know a lot of others were as well. No other druid sub tackles the flavor of destruction in the way I wildfire druid does.

This was one of the biggest misses in Tasha's for me.

I think the withholding of fireball was entirely a meta-design choice. They don't want druids casting Fireball any more than they want wizards casting Call Lightning.

I realize several other classes get Fireball, but when you look closely at how they hand out spells you can see that WotC very much wants to keep wizard and druids in particular from feeling the same. Not saying it's the right call, but several of the design choices in 5e are influenced by D&D history and tradition and I think drawing a firm line between wizard and druid spell lists is a part of that.

Personally, I kind of like it because it means other spells have a chance of being used as Fireball has a way of eclipsing similar options.

I think you're spot on with your analysis scatterbraind.

My insistence on Fireball is really more an insistence on some out of class, but enticing option at 3rd level spells. I think any druid bonus list without a unique option at 3rd level feels really bad. It's the games break point, where things really start getting juicy and your character really comes into their own. Druids with good unique 3rd level have well developed flavor (mountain/grassland druid, spores, etc). Fireball happens to be mechanically strong, and fits the flavor to a tee.

My ideal solution though, would be a totally new fire based third level spell. Something that better coincides with the druid's identity as a control caster. Druids are all about battlefield manipulation with damage tacked on. Make a third level fire spell like that.Could have beengreat.

Quote from FallenPhoenixIV >>

Already made my own version with the variant spell list, just wish it didn't have to come to that.

^^^ This 100%.

I've had to do this with way too many parts of Tasha's so far. (This spell list needs changing,Armorers need model-specific spells, previous sorcerer subclasses need spell lists, Order of the Scribes wizards need to be wiped from existence, and so on and so on.)

Quote from Third_Sundering >>

Quote from FallenPhoenixIV >>

Already made my own version with the variant spell list, just wish it didn't have to come to that.

^^^ This 100%.

I've had to do this with way too many parts of Tasha's so far. (This spell list needs changing,Armorers need model-specific spells, previous sorcerer subclasses need spell lists, Order of the Scribes wizards need to be wiped from existence, and so on and so on.)

Yeah, I know the ddb folks already have their hands full trying to make the tasha's content functional still, but I'm waiting/hoping they make a homebrew variant features a thing before I go too ham on fixing stuff like spell lists for sorcerers, more totem warrior options,fixingfavored foe (I hate that variant feature with a burning vengeance), and probably more. Though I didn't think about the additional armor models till your post about it, like the idea.

(I did see the order of scribes post, just didn't contribute due to it getting a bit out of hand. For me, I'm mixed on it. I like the idea of a generalist wizard, but they went about it wrong.)

Quote from NavmaxLP >>

This is an opinion and I can already think of arguments against it but, the concept of the Wildfire Druid feels more like a precision controlled burn to regenerate life. Fireball feels like an extreme coarse adjust rather than a precision fine tune. It makes more sense to me thinking about it that way.

I can see that opinion, but my counter point to that would be, if control was the issue then why not just replace fireball for Melf's Minute Meteors. It functions similarly to fireball by giving access to AOE fire damage but in a more controlled manner.

I totally forgot about melf's minute meteors! UGH. The devseven had access to a spell that "better balances" with the druid. It's the forgotten blast no one uses because of fireball that would also have tension with all of the druid's concentration spells. Would have been a great way to give the classan identity defining, unique 3rd level bonus spell whilealso giving a lesser played spell some reason to shine.

Now I'm pissed. lol

Just give the class Melf's if Fireball is such a big balance concern. For anyone looking to play this and upset with the spell list, I would recommend asking for Melf's from your DM as a reasonable compromise that is less likely to upset sensibilities.

Melf's Minute Meteors is an alright spell, but I don't think it fits this subclass that well. Fireball fits better, IMO.

(Also, imagine this subclass with Meteor Swarm.)

Oh I definitely agree Fireball fits the flavor better than Melf's. Although I can get behind the whole meteor - extinction event - new life thing. Honestly, I'm really confused by anyone saying fireball does not fit the flavor of this subclass. It really feels like people are stretching and leaning on semantics to say fireball doesn't fit this subclass. Like c'mon. Fireball. Wildfire Druid. How is that not perfect?

My thing is Melf's seems like a great thing for a player to approach a DM about when it comes to homebrewing a fix. Many DMs already open to homebrewing will be just fine with fireball, but I think just as many would have their sensibilities bothered by someone asking for such a good spell. By asking for a worse spell that conflicts with the druid's plethora of good concentration spells it comes off much less power-hungry. A matter of optics really, and something I wanted to point out in case anyone was looking to construct their own bonus list to present to a DM as a possible fix. YMMV on that one.

Quote from Third_Sundering >>

Melf's Minute Meteors is an alright spell, but I don't think it fits this subclass that well. Fireball fits better, IMO.

(Also, imagine this subclass with Meteor Swarm.)

Oh yeah, definitely not arguing for minute meteor over fireball. I'm definitely in the group for fireball is wildfire, just makes too much sense for this subclass but I've always imagined that the minute meteors are just tiny fireballs.Just wanted tobring up the fact that there were other options.