Stacking Metamagic
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#1 May 8, 2022
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And no, I don't mean using multiple metamagics on the same spell.
So, here's the rules:You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted. Cool, that's very cut and dry- no stacking different metamagic.
BUT... is there anything saying you can't stack *the same* metamagic? You can only use one Metamagic option on a spell, but it doesn't say anything about how *many times* you can use the Metamagic option you chose on the same spell (except Twinned Spell, since by virtue of Twinning a Spell, you make it so you can't use Twinned again because the spell in question is now affecting more than one creature).
Example: I cast... I dunno, Dominate Beast. duration 1 minute. so I use Extended Spell 6 times to make it last for an hour (and 4 minutes, technically). Or Distant Spell to make the ultimate snipe shot with Fireball or something. I don't know.
Because there are no spells from the Sorc spell list (or Cleric spell list for Divine Souls) that are 12 hours in duration, so the "up to 24 hours" limit on Extended Spell makes little sense. If it was just meant to exclude 24 hour spells from it, it would say something like "a spell of duration 24 hours or greater cannot be applied to." or something.
Point is, do we have anythingas written that prevents the application of multiple uses of the same Metamagic on a spell, so long as it is being applied and the sorc points are paid at the time of casting the spell?
(RAI, you're probably only supposed to use a metamagic the one time, I get that. Not the point of the question.)
Formerly Devan Avalon.
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#2 May 8, 2022
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As you say I doubt this is rules as intended, and in RAW I don't think it's allowed either. The wording isn't that you must use adifferent option, it's that "you can use only one Metamagic option", if you use the same Metamagic option twice that's still two options, it just happens that they're the same.
To use a silly example; if you have a carrot and a potato that's two vegetables, if you have two carrots, that's still two vegetables.
In terms of the potential for abuse there are only certain Metamagics that doubling up might work with:
- Careful Spell: Giveauto-save to more creatures, not exactly OP (since 99% of the time it's just your own party anyway).
- Distant Spell: Keep doubling the distance; probably not that OP either as you're burning sorcery points for potentially silly distances, but you still need to be able to see a target. It's not a metamagic that I find comes up all that much personally.
- Empowered Spell: Can already be used with a different option, however you must use the second result, so this can't be stacked with itself.
- Extended Spell: Keep doubling the duration; possibly abusable but not massively so, as you'd need to burn quite a few sorcery points to get one of the more powerful, but short lived, spells to any kind of useful duration.
- Heightened Spell: Could give disadvantage to additional targets ofa multi-targetspell; probably not OP as at 3 points a pop you'd burn through themfast.
- Seeking Spell: Must use the new roll, so can't re-roll more than once.
- Quickened Spell: You only get one bonus action in a turn.
- Subtle Spell: Spell can't getmore subtle.
- Transmuted Spell:There's no benefit to using this more than once on a spell.
- Twinned Spell: As you say, spell has become ineligible for a second stacking.
So yeah, it's really just Careful, Distant, Extended and Heightened that you could actually stack in any kind of a useful way; probably not OP enough that it wouldn't be okay to allow it, but I'm not convinced that it's RAW to be able to do this.
Last edited by Haravikk: May 8, 2022
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#3 May 8, 2022
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As you say I doubt this is rules as intended, and in RAW I don't think it's allowed either. The wording isn't that you must use adifferent option, it's that "you can use only one Metamagic option", if you use the same Metamagic option twice that's still two options, it just happens that they're the same.
To use a silly example; if you have a carrot and a potato that's two vegetables, if you have two carrots, that's still two vegetables.
In terms of the potential for abuse there are only certain Metamagics that doubling up might work with:
- Careful Spell: Giveauto-save to more creatures, not exactly OP (since 99% of the time it's just your own party anyway).
- Distant Spell: Keep doubling the distance; probably not that OP either as you're burning sorcery points for potentially silly distances, but you still need to be able to see a target. It's not a metamagic that I find comes up all that much personally.
- Empowered Spell: Can already be used with a different option, however you must use the second result, so this can't be stacked with itself.
- Extended Spell: Keep doubling the duration; possibly abusable but not massively so, as you'd need to burn quite a few sorcery points to get one of the more powerful, but short lived, spells to any kind of useful duration.
- Heightened Spell: Could give disadvantage to additional targets ofa multi-targetspell; probably not OP as at 3 points a pop you'd burn through themfast.
- Seeking Spell: Must use the new roll, so can't re-roll more than once.
- Quickened Spell: You only get one bonus action in a turn.
- Subtle Spell: Spell can't getmore subtle.
- Transmuted Spell:There's no benefit to using this more than once on a spell.
- Twinned Spell: As you say, spell has become ineligible for a second stacking.
So yeah, it's really just Careful, Distant, Extended and Heightened that you could actually stack in any kind of a useful way; probably not OP enough that it wouldn't be okay to allow it, but I'm not convinced that it's RAW to be able to do this.
Aha, someone else on another board pointed out the most glaringly obvious solution to the question that I frankly overlooked.
From the DMG:Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. -DMG
Would you look at that, the DMG confirms you can't stack metamagic, even if it's the same one. Of course I would forget this.
Last edited by Neutralista: May 8, 2022
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
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Greetings, fellow enthusiasts of the arcane arts and seekers of rules enlightenment. I am an adept in the realm of Dungeons & Dragons, particularly in the intricate mechanics of metamagic, and I bring forth not only a wealth of theoretical knowledge but also practical insights into the matter at hand.
Now, let's delve into the fascinating inquiry posed by Neutralista regarding the stacking of metamagic options. The query revolves around the possibility of applying the same metamagic more than once to a single spell, circumventing the standard limitation of one metamagic option per casting. To unravel this mystery, we must dissect the rules and explore the potential consequences of such an application.
Neutralista, in their post, contemplates the absence of explicit restrictions on stacking the same metamagic. However, Haravikk, in response, scrutinizes the wording of the rules, pointing out that the prohibition is against using more than one metamagic option on a spell, without specific mention of duplicating the same option. A nuanced interpretation, but one that prompts a deeper examination.
Haravikk proceeds to analyze potential scenarios of abuse and strategic advantage if this were allowed. The discussion encompasses various metamagic options, evaluating their impact when duplicated. Notably, Careful Spell, Distant Spell, Extended Spell, and Heightened Spell emerge as potentially stackable with meaningful outcomes.
In the subsequent exchange, Neutralista stumbles upon a crucial piece of evidence from the Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG). The DMG clarifies that stacking effects with the same name is generally prohibited, allowing only the most potent effect to apply when overlapping durations occur. This revelation, often overlooked, serves as a definitive answer to the question at hand, reinforcing the understanding that even duplicating the same metamagic is against the rules.
In conclusion, the interplay of rules, player interpretations, and hidden gems within the game manuals enriches our understanding of the Dungeons & Dragons universe. The prohibition of stacking metamagic, as reinforced by the DMG, stands as a safeguard against potential exploits, ensuring a balanced and fair playing field for all practitioners of the arcane arts. May your spellcasting endeavors be both magical and rule-abiding!
